Tim, Mark & Marisol Interview

Tim: When you rape a child, you lose rights forever. That’s it! You lose rights forever. Somehow we don’t understand this. And again, you can serve your sentence and everything else, but you still have lost rights. One of those rights you lose is you don’t get to travel around the world with anonymity. We are going to talk about where you are. We are going to watch you. Is that so unreasonable? I mean, the argument is that, well if they travel to some place like Iran and we tell the Iranian government, they might kill him. Well, you know what? That is his choice to travel to Iran after raping children. Don’t rape kids! How about that?! Let’s start with that.

Mark: If you do it twice, we are sending you to Iran with a big tag on your head, ‘I rape kids’.

Tim: That should be the punishment, right? That should be the sentence.

Marisol: We do that for terrorism and we give up their rights that way. It should be no different.


 

Intro

You are listening to Slave Stealer.

Tim: It is a world I know and understand better than most people, because you don’t even know how real and how huge it is. There have been laws put in place to protect kids, and one of the laws – surprise, surprise – is that you can’t sell them. If you guys are traffickers, you have come in just like this. This is what happens, this is the core of the problem.


Tim: Marisol, thank you for joining us on Slave Stealer podcast.

Marisol: Oh, it’s my pleasure.

Tim: Marisol Nichols is our friend, and actress, and social activist. She has been on ‘Criminal Minds’, ‘24’, ‘Blind Justice’, ‘NCIS’ – all these cop shows. Did that have anything to do…or is that just a coincidence with your passion to fight crime?  

Marisol: I am sure it does. I am sure it does. I did so much resource playing different kinds of cop roles and agent roles and stuff that it just kind of, by default, dealt me into this world.  

Tim: Tell us about your foundation, and we’ll talk about how we met and what we are doing together with you.

Marisol: Sure! So I got involved in trafficking maybe three or four years ago, and the whole reason I started my foundation was… Well, there are a couple of reasons. One was, the more I learned, the more I found out about it, the more I was like, “I have to do something.” I can’t not do something. It can’t be something that I can sit back and say, “Those poor people over there,” or “How horrible for them.” That’s… No, no, no, I can’t sleep at night unless I do something. And there were many, many, many nights that I wouldn’t sleep because the more I learned, the more, you know, horrific it is. So forming my own foundation was just sort of a natural thing that came out of meeting with different organizations and legislators – you know, the people that live and work in this field – to see how I could help, what could I do. I have, you know, many, many friends in the business, both in front of the camera and behind the camera, and anyone and everyone I would talk to were like, “What can I do? How can I help?” And because of that is how I started doing these briefings and big events, educating a particular audience about what is happening not only in our world and on our planet, but also in our own backyard.

Tim: So, question for you, because I don’t know the answer to this question but it bugs me. I mean, this is the greatest plague on the planet. There is nothing worse than this and yet, we… Our presidential candidates aren’t talking about it. It is kind of still a vague word, you know, people, trafficking… What’s going on? Why can’t people see it?

Marisol: Two reasons. And I don’t actually even blame people for not seeing – I blame the people that are in charge of our entertainment. I blame…I really do, I truly do, because I think that we have created a world where we can get purposely distracted by Kardashians and social media and whatever other things that they want coming down the line that’s the “buzzword of the week” so we don’t pay attention to what’s really really going on. And…look, our news channels are not very forthcoming – some of them are really wonderfully…will do pieces on it and pieces on it, but to me, like you said, it nowhere near fits what’s needed. And I’m sure you’ve had this experience, Tim, that when you DO meet people that find out about it, their world is completely rocked and they’re completely changed and they want to help.

Tim: Yep.

Marisol: And I honestly believe that there are, you know, certain forces out there that don’t want to see this end.

Mark: Name names.

Marisol: Well look, who’s profiting? I mean, you can follow money: who makes the most money from this? Whether it’s sex slavery or labor bondage or what. Who is making money from this? And you can trace it back and trace it back. And Tim hit it right on the head – why aren’t our presidential candidates talking about this? This is a HUGE issue; it’s bigger than anything.

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: He’s right. Why isn’t there a giant spotlight, so who is profiting from that? Who is benefitting and keeping people enslaved?

Tim: It boggles my mind, but I do believe, like you believe, that if we can get people to see it and they become converts, our politicians will have to start talking about it if there’s a demand for that subject.  

Marisol: Exactly.

Tim: And we’re not yelling loud enough yet. We are trying to yell loud and be a voice for these victims. Now, you got to come with us – we took you down to visit some of the victims that we had rescued in Haiti, and then on our way back we stopped in an unnamed city. Marisol actually went undercover with us and… Tell me, tell me about that whole experience – how you felt seeing those kids. And then, I mean, you kind of got this cool experience where you got to see these victims and, all of a sudden, you are thrown into this – one of the people who travels and abuses these kids, one of the partakers. What was that like?    

Marisol: You know, it’s haunting to me because it is one thing to read about the issue, talk about the issue, hear the statistics, hear the stories, look at videos; it’s another thing to see it firsthand, and particularly meeting the abuser… I mean, this was… You know, you wouldn’t recognize him down the street. You’d go…this is your college guy, this is your neighbor, this is your… You know, he looks like an everyday Joe. And the callousness in which he would talk about doing these things to girls was astonishing and also heart-breaking. You go, ‘You realize that these are human beings, right? You realize that you are talking about someone’s sister, someone’s daughter, someone’s mother, one day hopefully…’

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: And it was….you know, it was haunting because you go, ‘Ok, that’s the mindset that allows this to occur.’ That is the mindset – partyyy, woohoo, or whatever it is. It was haunting; it stayed with me.

Tim: And can you tell us…what was the role you were playing? You were awesome, by the way, and it was obviously natural. You know, it’s funny… People think like, you know, undercover operators… Just because you are a cop, you think you are going to be good in undercover work. It’s not true. And when I was in law enforcement, it was difficult to find good undercover operators because, again, it’s not inherent to a police officer. It’s more an actor or actresses, and that’s where you’re going to be able to pull it off. So, tell us what role you played in that?  

Marisol: Yeah. So, I was playing the person who sets up the sex parties basically, who sets up the situation for men to come and abuse these girls. And so, you know, it was very, very spur of the moment. I think we had, what, half an hour to plan it or something.

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: You know, when I saw that the only way I am going to pull this off with this guy is if I pretend to be one of those people that just don’t care.

Mark: What did you do? Give me some lines.

Marisol: You know, I said things like, “Hey, yeah, you know, it’s all gooood.”

Tim: Yeah, she was sitting like really sexy, like just loosey-goosey. It was perfect. And the guy was, like, watching her more than anything else, and he understands that she will be able to get girls for us, better than we can get them on our own.

Marisol: One of the facts that I was surprised to learn about is some of the traffickers are girls – they are. And they lure young girls just as well as the men do.

Tim: Even better.

Mark: Let’s say you get a big role as a trafficker on a film coming out in a couple years. What do you do to prepare?

Marisol: It’s interesting because prior to coming into this world, you know that there are evil people out there, but you think, you know, you just don’t have that much reality. And then playing a trafficker or playing someone like this…now I’ve started to play some sort of, you know, one or two bad guys here and there, and I am like, ‘Oh no, no, no, it is 100% evil with no remorse and no feeling and no nothing.’ That is how you would have to be to do this. You’d have to be one of those people that there is nothing left.

Tim: You look in their eyes when you see these people – I mean there’s no soul. I mean, it’s like past feeling. It’s just unbelievable. Like the woman we have talked about, the trafficker, the beauty queen, who was going around luring these girls at 9, 10 years old, telling them that she’s going teach them to be famous. She is famous, she’s in all sorts of music videos, and the families were sending their kids with her. And she is going and selling them to us who she believed were men coming down to violate. And Marisol, you talked about this guy we met and you playing this undercover role… I mean, I am literally sitting here, we are late for the podcast [because] I have about twenty dudes sitting here, and they look just like that guy. I mean, I have a couple – I’m not kidding you – I have a couple right now who are coming together to abuse who they believe to be a 13- and a 12-year-old and a 9-year-old. And they’re all excited – they’re telling me what they are going to do and they both want to do it together. They will be arrested next week when they show up.

Marisol: It’s like I said before, how can you not do everything you possibly can? And, like, why aren’t there riots in the streets? Why aren’t we talking about this? It should be on the tip of everyone’s tongue. And I believe that if we did, it really would end it fast.  

Tim: Yes. And the problem is… It’s this concept that people think, “Well, I have heard of it, but law enforcement is taking care of it. The government is going to take care of it.” And not to slam the government, but it is too big of a problem. There’s 30 million plus slaves, depending on what numbers you look at – 2 million at least, or more probably, kids in the sex slave industry. If people knew… And it reminds me of the slavery in the 19th century where it was the same thing. They weren’t talking about it. It was just like people knew what was happening, but: “Oh, the government will take care of that.” It wasn’t until people learned through abolitionists like Frederick Douglass, Harriet Tubman, and Harriet Beecher Stowe who wrote “Uncle Tom’s Cabin.” It wasn’t until the people rose up and got so loud that the government said, “Oh crap, we better do more, we better do something.” And then you start to stop it. We can do it, we can stop it!

Marisol: And it comes down to people demanding that the government do something about it. We just demand that it will end and it will end. But you need multitudes and multitudes of people demanding, and educating, and showing more, and educating others, to really put an end to this. But it can be done. I believe you 100% – it can be done.

Mark: I have a question. Marisol, in your dealings with trafficking, who were the good guys? Why don’t we just start shouting out people that are amazing? You may have worked with them directly or not – you know of them, or friends of yours…

Marisol: Yeah, ok! Well, first of all, Tim, Tim Ballard and Matt Osborn at OUR – for sure, 100% top of the list.

Tim: Thank you, you are so nice.

Marisol: What they do is incredible. And I’ve mentioned it before, but it is… When you first learn about this, you are, “Let’s go get the kids. Can we just go and just get the kids?” And that is what they do.

Mark: Yes.

Marisol: And I mean that is vital. There is, obviously, a lot more that are joining… There are so many people doing this particular fight. There’s Kim Biddle, from an organization called Saving Innocence in Los Angeles, that has dedicated her life. She is this beautiful, brilliant, brilliant girl, gorgeous, and she has dedicated her entire life to saving girls from trafficking and then rehabilitating them and seeing it through, like seeing it all the way through – not put them in a home and walk away, but seeing all the way through until the girl graduates from the home, goes to college and has her entire life back. She is dedicated.

Mark: More influencers… Anyone in your world, acting world? Who are the good guys in trafficking?

Marisol: There was this one movement that Sean Penn and bunch of other celebs got involved in and it was quick, but it really made a difference. It was “Real Men Don’t Buy Girls.” I don’t know if you remember that, but it was a whole Twitter and hashtag thing, and they got some giant celebs to do this. And I thought it was really effective because people look up to actors, musicians, incredible artists as opinion leaders. For these guys to stand up there and say real men don’t buy girls… I thought it set it up a little bit which was really, really good to set a precedent of like, “Hey, who are we looking at that really does this?” and maybe, maybe make someone think twice about it. There needs to be more. I mean, just to be honest, we need more shows focusing on it. We need more episodes of crime shows focusing on it and really telling the stories. On “Law and Order: SVU,” they’ve done a fairly good job on that because that is their ‘Sexual Victims Unit’ – that is their entire title of the show – but I believe we need more.  And recently – I don’t know if you saw “Room,” but “Room” did a really good job of taking you through a girl’s experience, what it would be like to be trapped and under the control of someone else who is monitoring your every single move. I don’t know if you know the story, but she was trapped for seven years and had a baby by the trafficker and eventually escaped. And this particular story in this movie did such a good job. But it is based on so many cases of girls being trapped in the exact same way, having children from their traffickers, all of it… And it really, I thought, painted a really great picture of what it’s like for the victim and made you sort of wake up like, “Wait, this exists. This happened.”      

Mark: Are there certain writers or studios or groups that do a better job of talking about trafficking, and are they getting the ratings when they do it?

Marisol: That’s a really good question. There are definitely episodes that focus on it, but not anyone where I can, “Oh yeah, this particular writer,” or, “Fox is dedicating an entire series to this,” or anything like that. It’s still not there. And like anything, right now it’s just an episode or two that would be dedicated to it rather than an entire show, if that make sense. But when they do air, they make just as equal ratings as they would any other crime, because it usually goes on crime shows. What I would like to see is that at the end of those things: “To find out more, go to www…” or statistics.

Mark: Yes.

Marisol: Or, like, “Hey, this is actually based on a real case,” to get the audience going, “I had no idea.” Because anything that’s based on real life events will always garner more interest.

Mark: Do you feel like we speak about trafficking correctly? In general, how it’s messaged – how should it be messaged in your opinion, if you were PR for the movement?

Marisol: If I was PR for the movement, I would call it slavery. I would call it modern-day slavery and I would make sure it was in the forefront of everything. And I would really, really, really validate the people who rescue the kids – not only OUR, but also police officers, FBI agents, sheriffs because when I would tell people, they would go, “Why aren’t the police doing anything about it?” I am like, “Because the police are the same people who have to respond to a burglary, to a murder, to a cat up atree, to all of it.”

Mark: Yeah.

Marisol: And I think if we started validating more and more the officers and sheriffs and agents that are focusing on this and are getting results and freeing girls and, most importantly, putting the traffickers away… I think the more validation you give that, or anything, the more of it we will get.

Mark: Yeah.

Marisol: You know, there’s a fascination with murder. You know, there’s a thousand TV shows about murder, about this, and I’ve been in all of them, so I do know. And I think we need to shift our focus, because, for one, I think you get whatever you validate. So if you’re validating that, you are going to get more of it. But we can use that to our advantage and validate those guys that are doing this, and not only getting the girls, but arresting those traffickers and making sure it sticks. Because it’s not easy. And I know this from law enforcement – I know this from meeting with different legislators, and all of that. It is that trafficking is not an easy thing to prosecute.  

Mark: It is not.

Marisol: It is crazy to me, and I have certain ideas that I am working with to make it a lot easier and what I think could be done. But we’ll get to that whenever you are at that point of the program.  

Mark: Well no, if you have certain ideas, let us have them.

Marisol: What’s hard, at least in this country, is you have to get a victim to testify against her trafficker and the johns just walk free: “Well, she approached me,” or, “I didn’t know… answered an ad,” blah blah blah. There’s an existing law in the books called statutory rape – it doesn’t matter if the girl was consensual or not. It doesn’t matter at all. So if you were to start prosecuting johns and traffickers with statutory rape, you don’t have to get the girl to go through a whole testimony and how he forced her, anything. Is she under the age of 17 or not?

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: Done. It’s done. And when you start prosecuting johns and traffickers with rape, that is a different story now.

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: And charging traffickers, by the way, with facilitation of rape, where you are creating an environment where a girl can be raped extremely easily, she’s under the age of 17 – it’s done.

Tim: Yeah, I couldn’t agree more. In fact, a lot of our approaches to this is all about figuring out how to prosecute these cases without needing to put the victim on the stand. These victims are so… They’ve been so terrorized and so rewired. For their own well-being, you don’t want to put them on the stand to have them have to relive this. Also, they’re not the best witnesses because they don’t know who they are, they don’t know who to trust. And so, this solution of prosecuting different crimes to get around that is one approach. Something we’re doing, especially in foreign countries, is we do these sting operations and film everything. And they don’t generally do that, especially in developing nations. We film every part, from the day we meet the trafficker until we buy the kid. And so, at the end of the day, we just give a hard drive to the prosecutor, and it’s like they’re watching the movie, and they say, “We don’t need to put the kid on the stand because we have the true intent of this trafficker from seventeen different angles.”   

Marisol: Yes. And you know, Tim, I’ve had these conversations with Lieutenant Mark Evans, who is head of all Los Angeles Vice and all of the trafficking in Los Angeles, on the valley side, and he’s like, “We would do this if the DA [district attorney] would prosecute.” So my next step is to meet with DAs and go, “Would you prosecute them?” Because it all depends on, are they going to prosecute the case like that or not. The cops can actually charge them with anything that they want, so if we just start instilling the mindset… And also, johns. Can we just take a moment about the customers? Because if, right now – and I don’t know if this is the case all over, but at least in California, you know – let’s say there’s a 12-year-old-girl. Someone answered an ad on Backpage and went to a motel and had sex with a 12-year-old girl. And the guy is 55 years old – he gets a slap on the wrist and he goes to john school and he gets a misdemeanor and it gets wiped from his record, just like traffic school. I don’t understand how that’s ok.

Tim: Yeah… It is not ok.

Marisol: And if we started prosecuting the johns with statutory rape, and you advertise that, you are going to take away the demand a lot faster.

Tim: Absolutely.

Marisol: Because people don’t like to be charged with rape by any means. But right now, there’s no consequence.

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: There’s no consequence. They walk free. It doesn’t matter. So there are mindsets and things that can be changed within our already existing laws – at least in this country – that I believe could go a long way towards making a difference, starting with the customers. And then, as the johns get arrested and as they do get prosecuted, or even just arrested, why are we protecting them? If you look in the back of a newspaper, or whatever, you can read like who got arrested for what, drunk driving, blah blah blah blah. But you can get arrested for this and it’s not there.   

Tim: Yeah.

Marisol: So I think we should make the johns, particularly the rich white guys, pay for a billboard with their face and their mugshot in their neighborhood.

Tim: The Queen of Sweden did this. She did this thing where if you got caught trying to have sex with a child, you got your face plastered on a billboard for everyone to see. And guess what happened? They stopped. They stopped soliciting kids in Sweden. They left. It’s exactly what we need to do.

Marisol: Exactly.

Tim: Unfortunately, there are a lot of groups out here who would stop us from doing that – trying to…worrying about child rapist rights.

Marisol: It’s insane to me. And I think, I honestly believe, Tim, that if we could get the certain people in the government that are not scared of that, we could push something like that through. But what I have run into in meeting on the local state and federal level is you get guys that are just, “Oh no, we can’t do that. We will be fought,” and they won’t even try. But I believe if you tried hard enough, we could push something like that through just based on the statistics alone that you ended this.     

Tim: These politicians answer to the people. If we can get the people loud enough, then they’ll say, “Of course I’ll put their face on a billboard!” Because the people are demanding it, and that’s where we need to start this, right. And that’s what you’re doing – that’s what we’re doing – is trying to create this grassroots movement – get so loud that these guys have to start doing stuff like this. History tells us that they’ll do it if we get loud enough.

Mark: You mentioned politicians that are scared, and we don’t know what the exact story is on H.R.515 right now, which is before Congress, which is a big cause that we’re going to take up.    

Marisol: Which one is that?

Mark: It’s International Megan’s Law.

Marisol: Oh great, yes! Ok.

Mark: It will allow better communication between governments as bad guys travel abroad and come in. Right now, you can’t really get the information quickly enough to be actionable intelligence. Now, it went through the House, it went through the Senate, the Senate put some amendments on it, threw it back to the House – now it has a 15% passage rate. We’ve got a brilliant girl from the podcast congressional whip that just dissects bills. She’s amazing.   

Marisol: Who? Who does she work for, do you know?

Mark: She’s totally… It’s just her, totally independent.

Marisol: Oh, ok.

Mark: I don’t know what her politics are. I have listened to her shows – I have no idea, which is beautiful to me. She just dissects bills and sees what the pork is, sees what the hold-ups are… In…what day, I think February 10th, we’re going to be on with her and she’s going to walk us through the bill and dissect who is holding it up and why.

Marisol: Great!

Mark: That’s going to be awesome, right?

Tim: This thing has been in Congress for over a year. It’s ridiculous. Now, I actually testified with Attorney General Sean Reyes of Utah. We testified before the House on this bill because we were so frustrated, like, “Why can’t you pass this?!” It’s a place that actually creates what is called the Angel Watch Center, a center where non-profit, private groups, government groups all get together and they talk about…they bring intel together, they start communicating better. And like Mark was saying, it’s a notification program. If some French child rapist/former convict comes into our country, they’re going to tell us, “Hey, this guy is flying into JFK. You might want to either deny him entry or watch him,” you know. And we do the same for other countries. And again, what the issue is is their rights, the criminal’s right to travel without being notified.

Mark: As we start to find more about H.R.515, maybe we engage you.

Marisol: I’m looking at it right now and I’m kind of seeing where possibly the hold-up is because they are talking about any sex offender, and what I found in the past of certain other laws was that the definition of sex offender also includes, like, the person who was caught urinating in a park drunk, and he’s labeled a sex offender for the rest of his life. And they’re using those cases to cause an uproar to stop the whole thing, and saying it would be discriminatory against them. It is a bunch of bureaucratic nonsense, but that’s where I am guessing – it’s a guess – some of the hold-up is. One of the things that could go a long way is we will prosecute people for aiding and abetting. If they knew about a murder, or they knew about a robbery that was taken place, or they were the driver but they didn’t do it… But we don’t do this with trafficking.    

Tim: It’s a great point. It’s true.

Marisol: That would be another angle to getting the johns, going, “Hey, you knew about this,” because prostitution is illegal in this country. So, did you really answer an ad for a massage? Do you know what I mean? And cast a wider net when you can actually prosecute people for aiding and abetting, for helping it along, for being an accomplice…you know, looking in terms of existing laws and what we already have on the books and prosecuting differently to make a bigger dent.

Tim: Agreed. We need to make a list and shout it out to the world: “Here are the things that need a change,” and just be loud. Get the footage, get the entertainment industry, get everyone to be so loud – Harriet Beecher Stowe the thing, right – and then say, “What do we do?” “Here’s the list, call your congressmen, get this stuff changed.” Let’s do it, we’re going to do it! Alright. Thanks so much, Marisol, we will have you back soon.

Marisol: Alright, thanks guys! Thanks for having me!

Tim: Alright, thank you! You know, the thing I’ll end on is at least there are people out there because what this requires to save kids… You have to think outside the box. Just like to get rid of slavery in America, you had to think outside the box. And the model we’re proposing is this private-public partnership where we need our law enforcement. They have the badges, they have the prosecutors, they have the jail system, they have the judicial system – they can do this. But the problem is, this is such a unique problem and it’s so enormous you have to be proactive and creative. Because these…the bad guys are being creative, and most law enforcement agencies don’t have the wherewithal to cover the homicides and the drug dealers and all the things they have been fighting for years and years and are trained to do. And now, you have trafficking problem on top of that. It’s relatively new in terms of trying to react to it, and most don’t have the tools they need. And that’s why I left the government. Because I recognized all the gaps in the agencies that were fighting this problem. Again, not to slam them, but there are gaps everywhere. I got turned down about half the time when I put out a request to do an operation. I got shut down because of X,Y, or Z. I always kind of understood the reasons, and I thought, “Alright, I don’t see the government fixing these gaps anytime soon, so I am going to leave – start my own organization that fills those gaps.” So I can go to any agency and say, “I know your problems because I had them, and I am going to solve them for you. We will do this, this, that and the other.” And the law enforcement agencies that want to save their kids are like, “Yes, come on in!” and we go and conquer together in the private-public model.  There are other law enforcement officers who… I will not name them right now, but I have them in my head right now, and I am pissed off at them. So close-minded.

Mark: What do they say? Give me a conversation.

Tim: “You shouldn’t be doing this work. This is just for us. This is for a sworn law enforcement.” “I was sworn law enforcement for 12 years, I know how to do this.” “Well, you can’t do it. I don’t like you doing it.” “The parents of the kids who are being abused – they like that we’re doing it. And where we’re working, no one is doing it.” So there’s no answer, no answer to it. It’s just the partners we work with – they are not this way. If you are this way, we don’t work with you. But you would be surprised how many come back and say that… They literally give up the opportunity to rescue more kids because of pride, because of ego, because if you don’t have a badge, you shouldn’t be consulting or helping or anything like that. They can’t see outside the box. And it’s sad because kids are getting hurt. I’ve had a conversation, actually – and I will not name the people, the agency – but I have literally had a conversation that went like this: “So you’re telling me that you or your boss would rather let these kids continue to be raped than work with a private organization that you know together we can solve the problem?” And they said, “Yes.”

Mark: Wow.

Tim: They said yes. It wasn’t them… The person I was talking to said, “I want to do it, but yes, that’s… My boss has made that deliberate decision.” They don’t want to admit that they need help or that they don’t have a handle on it. It’s sick, it’s sad. But you know, you have all sorts of people, and the good news is that there are a whole bunch of law enforcement agencies out there and prosecutors all over the place that put the kids above everything else, and that’s who we work with. Yep, that’s who we work with. And there are so many of them that we don’t run out of work. So, you know, I was talking to some folks at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children who are a wonderful asset – all law enforcement works with them on so many areas to find kids, to find child pornographers – just an amazing organization. And I was talking to them about some of my frustrations and they said, “You know what? We did the same thing.” They went through the same thing in the 80’s when they created the organization. There was a major – I won’t name the agency – a major agency in the United States government that actually put out a policy/memo to their agents, to their law enforcement, saying, “You will not work with this new National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. You will not work with them. We got this. We don’t need help.”  

Mark: Farm Bureau.

Tim: Yeah. That was a farm bureau. You got it.   

Mark: Gosh…you know, the Depression was their heyday. Since that, they’ve been useless.

Tim: Between that and the Bureau of Indian Affairs, yeah… They just wouldn’t…yeah, unbelievable. But now, guess what? That agency has agents in their office that work inside the National Center. And so they say, “Just don’t worry. Buck up, little Timmy. Just work with those that will work with you. And success will be built upon success.” And so we have to just put the negative aside and put the haters aside and we’ll work with those who see the vision. And they’re the best ones anyway. They’re the ones who are getting it done.

Mark: Today, more than any other day, in talking to you, I feel momentum. I feel really pumped. And I don’t know what you had for lunch, or what your pre-workout was, but you’re on fire, man. You are going to kill it.

Tim: You didn’t feel that before?

Mark: I did.

Tim: You jerk.

Mark: I didn’t… I felt like…

Tim: …how to take a compliment and just throw it in the trash. Sorry.

Mark: No, listen. I’ve felt like you are pushing a boulder uphill before, but now I feel like the boulder is moving. You know what I am saying? Like, we were getting people and we’re shedding light on the problem, but really I just feel new energy and not sure what it is.

Tim: Well, what you’re feeling probably is… I’m in the middle of a case. I’m back in my…

Mark: You are…

Tim: …I’m back in my agent days right now as an employee of this law enforcement agency. It’s… I’ve been given authorization to get back and get my hands dirty back in this. And when I do that, I get very energized.

Mark: Well, friends, sign us off, Timmy. Buck up, little Timmy.

Tim: Thanks for joining us, guys. Looking forward to see you again on Slave Stealer Podcast.